Join our newest Regional Managers, Cameron Reid and Rob Bailey, as they share a day in their lives and reflect on the challenges of transitioning from Branch Manager to Regional Manager.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
- Cameron and Rob's backgrounds and career journeys
- Their early career realisations and transitions
- What they don't miss about branch management
- How they build and maintain a relationship as regional managers
- How to keep ideas fresh in a long term career
Transcript
0:00 | [Music]
0:05 | Paul Bullivant (Host):
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Howarth Timber and Building Supplies 1840 Podcast. I’m your host Paul Bullivant. Today’s episode is the first in a series of what we’re going to call “A Day in the Life Of…” episodes.
In these episodes, what we’re going to do is pick a role from the company, that you find in Howarth Timber or you find in other builders’ merchants, and then we’re going to invite a couple of people who do those roles onto the podcast, so they can tell us all about the roles, what they do, some of the highs and lows, and some of the journeys they’ve been on to taking those roles on board.
So today we’re going to start off by bringing focus to the role of Regional Manager. And I’ve great pleasure in introducing Cameron Reid and Rob Bailey, who are our two newest Regional Managers, having been promoted to the role back in June. So welcome to you both.
1:01 | Cameron Reid & Rob Bailey:
Thanks. Thank you.
1:07 | Paul:
Shall we start by just getting you both to introduce yourselves, a bit about yourselves personally, your journey in builders’ merchanting, and how you ended up being a Regional Manager? Cam, yeah, go first.
1:21 | Cameron:
Yeah, I’ve been with Howarth 13 years now. So I started on the Graduate Management Training Scheme, which was a tough gig, I’ll be honest, I was questioning myself a few times. But yeah, that was a good start for me.
I worked there for a couple of years and then moved to the Manchester branch, where I was manager there for about 18 months. And then got an opportunity to go to Bury, where I was ever since until June of this year. And then got promoted.
1:49 | Paul:
What originally got you to apply for the…?
1:56 | Cameron:
I didn’t apply for it. A recruiter rang me, through a graduate recruiter firm. So I kind of fell into the industry. I didn’t have a clue about building materials.
So it’s straight from uni. Yeah, I was working in a warehouse at the time. My mum got me a job in a warehouse after uni, she said, “You’re not just sitting around doing nothing, you’ve got to come and work for me in the warehouse.” She worked in accounts, so I worked there.
Then I got my CV out on a couple of graduate places, and I got a random phone call saying, “Can you come down to Cheltenham?” It was to get onto their database, and then they contacted me about this one.
So yeah, I didn’t have a clue. I couldn’t tell you what piece of 3x2 was… which some people probably still agree with. Some customers.
2:40 | Paul:
What did you do at uni?
2:45 | Cameron:
Geography. So… yeah. Money well spent, really.
2:50 | Paul:
Yeah, okay. Rob?
2:54 | Rob:
So I started for the company in 2002, so I’m in my 23rd year now. I think, 23rd, yeah.
So I started off working in the yard at Bury under Paul Barton. I worked past my Class 2 HGV test. I did a bit of driving, then I got an opportunity to move inside, did a bit of shop management, then there was the Assistant Manager, did a bit of repping as well, and then got an opportunity in 2010 to go to Ashton branch.
Went there as Branch Manager. Managed there for, well, just short of 14 years, and then obviously got my promotion in June as Regional Manager for the Greater Manchester region.
3:39 | Paul:
That’s good. The story you’ve both told of kind of stumbling into builders’ merchanting is exactly the same as my story. It was my dad who triggered me into it.
Why do you think people stumble into builders’ merchanting rather than pick it?
3:56 | Cameron:
I guess you’re in and amongst it in terms of our parents, a tradesperson, you kind of… it’s a bit of an overlooked market, really. But it’s very obviously a really diverse market and industry, certainly unique. Every day is different.
And you look at people, especially in our company and in wider areas, once they’re in it, they kind of stay in it for a significant period of time.
4:20 | Paul:
Did you have a career you were thinking of when you did geography at uni?
4:25 | Cameron:
Not particularly, no. I was interested in planning and things like that, but yeah, I didn’t see myself working for a builder’s merchant selling building materials. But everything happens for a reason, doesn’t it?
4:39 | Rob:
Yeah. I wanted to be a chef when I left school.
4:42 | Paul:
Did you?
4:44 | Rob:
Yeah. I started catering college, I think I did about a week. I thought I was going to be cooking every day and then I never even saw the kitchen, it was just a classroom. And I thought, “Well, this isn’t really for me.”
So I started working in a factory for… did about four or five years there. And then at weekends I was working with a mate who was a window fitter, kitchen fitter, and I used to help him at weekends. He used to go into Howarth branch in Bury to get his materials. I went in with him, and I knew the guy that used to work behind the counter, he was a shop manager at the time, he used to work at the same factory as me. So we knew each other.
And he just rang me up one day and said, “You looking for a job?” And I went down for an interview and started the following week in the yard.
5:26 | Paul:
Interesting. Why the interest in being a chef at the start then?
5:31 | Rob:
I don’t know, I think I just wanted a skill. I think I wanted a trade.
I didn’t really know, I was so naive when I was young, when I was 16, 17, I didn’t even know what careers were. I just figured you left school, got a job in a factory, and that’s what you did. Because that’s what my dad did. So I just assumed that’s what you did.
So I didn’t really know what a career path was, never mind what I wanted to do. But I think I was quite lucky that when I left school and started working for the factory I worked at, it was a particularly poor place to work, no prospects, no career aspirations.
And then when I started working for Howarth, working for Paul, I realised there was potential to move up the ladder, because I’d seen other people in the branch move on to different roles.
6:16 | Paul:
One of the questions was going to be: at what point did you realise this was the career for you?
6:24 | Rob:
I think probably pretty early on. Within months of me starting at the branch, they started to put me through my heavy goods licence, which was not cheap, probably about a thousand quid back then. So I could see they were prepared to invest in me and there were opportunities.
So I thought, “Yeah, I’m working for a decent company.” And Paul, my boss, was great. I’d never had a good boss before, the bosses I’d had in the past were awful, and Paul, although he was strict, he was fair, and he was good. And I just thought, “Yeah, I can work for this guy.”
7:03 | Paul:
A lot of people in the company have worked their way up and it’s important that we continue to do so. You’ve had a lot of success with it, haven’t you?
7:10 | Rob:
Yeah, quite a few managers in my region have worked for me before they went into management, and I’m dead proud of that. That’s probably my proudest thing in my career.
7:23 | Paul:
We just recorded an episode with Nick and one of the things he said was the importance of working your way through and understanding all the roles, and taking time to learn what you do.
Cam, when did you decide it’s your career?
7:35 | Cameron:
I think when I started moving up through the ladder. I was working counter sales, getting involved in the sales side, I enjoyed that. I worked under Jeff K at the time and he took me to one side and outlined plans he had for me, and started to give me more things to get my teeth stuck into.
Once I could see how diverse it was and I started to enjoy it more, opportunities opened up. To be fair, he took a big chance on me when I went to the Manchester branch, I was only 20… I think. And I remember my first week there was a bit of an eye-opener.
But yeah, I really enjoyed it. Every day is completely different, and some of the projects we get involved in, a day-to-day moment is… no, it’s definitely not dull.
8:22 | Paul:
How long have you been a branch manager, Rob?
8:29 | Rob:
I started on the 24th of April 2010 at Ashton.
8:34 | Paul:
So you’ve done 14 years.
8:37 | Paul:
Cam, you’ve been with the company 13, so you’ve been manager for…?
8:42 | Cameron:
About 11 and a half.
8:42 | Paul:
So the vacancy that came up that led to you getting the roles, it came out of the blue really, didn’t it? Ian Williams deciding to…
8:56 | Paul (continued):
How were you feeling at that point, having been in a role for 14 years, and eight, nine years, however long, how were you feeling?
9:08 | Cameron:
I think I was ready for something else. Don’t get me wrong, if I wasn’t successful in getting this role I’d still have been at Bury and performing at Bury and doing what I needed to do.
But I’d been through this process for six, seven years ago, prior to yourself and Ian and Jack coming to the company, and it was too early for me then. I think I performed well in the process, but it was way too early for me to move into regional management.
But having had a bit of a taste of it, not a taste of it, but been through that and been disappointed, I knew once Ian told me the news that that was in my mind and this is what I wanted to do.
But yeah, it kind of dragged on for a bit, didn’t it? It was probably two or three months. Not dragged on, but two or three months. It took a lot of time. A lot of organising. The right decision has to be made. And it was quite difficult to keep focus, I’ll be honest.
9:58 | Paul:
Rob, how were you feeling, having done the years of management?
10:04 | Rob:
I think I was the last person to actually apply for the job. I think it was 10 applicants and I think I was the last person to apply.
But I was so torn with it, whether it was because I didn’t go for it the first time around when Cameron went for it. I was really torn: do I want to do this? Do I feel as though I have to do it? Do I feel I should do it? People are expecting me to do it?
But once I applied, I felt comfortable. And when I got to the assessment day, I thought, “Yeah, I can do this.” It felt good.
I think obviously with me working at the Ashton branch for such a long time it was difficult. I found that transition really difficult, to move away from the branch and watch somebody else run it. I’m still struggling with that now, to be honest.
It couldn’t be a further removed role from what we do now to what we were doing six months ago. It’s completely different.
11:03 | Paul:
How have you overcome that, stepping away from something you’ve put your heart and soul into?
11:16 | Rob:
I think what I’ve said to myself is that when I moved from Bury to Ashton in 2010, that was completely different as well. Bury was a traditional merchant when I was there, and everything was going well. When I got to Ashton, it was going through a really difficult time. It was making a transition from being more of a manufacturing branch than a proper merchant. It had been through redundancies the year before I got there. It was in a difficult place.
I remember ringing Jeff, my old boss, and saying, “I don’t know what I’ve done here,” because I found the team really difficult to work with. It probably took me a year to get comfortable there.
So what I’ve said to myself is that this role won’t be any different. It’s probably going to take us both about a year to get used to doing this, maybe even longer, because it’s such a change. I’m just kind of rolling with the punches and expecting that you’re going to miss certain aspects of branch management, and some that you won’t.
12:22 | Paul:
What don’t you miss?
12:29 | Rob:
Daily drama.
You’re the person everybody goes to. Every problem, every issue, you’re the one they come to. And although at the time you sometimes hate it, when you’re not in that position anymore, you do miss it a little bit.
But I don’t miss all of it.
14:02 | Cameron:
Customers… sometimes.
The customers are brilliant, but you can bend over backwards 99 times and then one minor thing goes wrong, even if it’s major in their eyes, and you’re every name under the sun.
But then you kind of miss that as well, because it gives you a buzz when you do get things right.
One frustration is trying to be organised in the world’s most unorganised industry. Every day you’d come in with a plan, and by half eight in the morning it was out of the window. You’re just reacting and putting fires out.
I did enjoy that, I felt I was good at it. But it is chaos.
15:10 | Paul:
Why is the industry so chaotic?
15:16 | Rob:
Because there are so many people relying on people before them. You’ve got four or five different trades on a site, plus the homeowner. If they change their mind, it changes everyone’s plans. Or the job might go quicker than expected and they suddenly need materials, and it’s always your fault.
A lot of jobs we supply, the customers don’t actually know what they’re going to need until they start digging. So we’ve got to react to that, and our suppliers have to react to us.
That’s the fun, the pressure is the fun.
15:51 | Cameron:
I agree. That chaos is probably why merchanting is still going strong after all these years. We’re happy to operate in that grey, messy area.
You’re never going to get an Amazon-type business doing what we do. It’s just not possible. The best merchants are the ones prepared to be reactive. The rigid ones fail.
16:50 | Paul:
How have your mindsets had to change from being a Branch Manager to being a Regional Manager?
17:54 | Rob:
When I was manager at Ashton, I was really selfish toward that branch. It sounds crazy, but I didn’t care about the other 35 branches. If Ashton performed and made money, I was doing alright.
Now I’ve got eight branches. And not just my eight, I care about his, and the Southern ones, and the Eastern ones. We need the whole company to perform well.
That’s been a big mindset shift.
18:17 | Cameron:
Early on, we probably tried to take on too much ourselves, defaulting to what we knew. But it’s about managing through your managers.
It’s about tweaks here and there. Nobody’s got a magic wand. It’s using previous experience and just pushing a bit of knowledge on.
22:54 | Paul:
How do you make sure you keep your ideas fresh and don’t get stuck in “the Howarth way”?
24:18 | Rob:
I’ve always known I don’t know everything. I’ve always been prepared to listen, whether that’s someone in the yard or someone in SLT.
When Ian came in from a national, he brought change. Some worked, some didn’t. But I was prepared to go with it.
I’ve got colleagues outside Howarth too. Supplier reps are a great source of information about what’s going on in the market. It’s being prepared to accept your way isn’t always right.
You’re going to make mistakes.
25:27 | Cameron:
We’re lucky with Nick. He’s very in touch with the business. He’s supportive, even if he has concerns about something we want to implement, he runs through his concerns, but ultimately backs us.
27:56 | Paul:
So in simple terms, what is the role of a Regional Manager?
28:04 | Rob:
Supporting your managers. Giving them autonomy and freedom to take calculated risks.
Feeding information down from SLT in a timely manner, not bombarding them.
Ultimately, the role is to make sure your branches are profitable. That’s the crux of it.
29:06 | Cameron:
Each branch has a different problem, volume, margin, staffing, layout. It’s going in, looking at a snapshot, identifying the issue, and working with the manager on a plan.
And managing through your managers, not trying to manage the branch yourself.
30:00 | Paul:
What’s surprised you most?
30:05 | Cameron:
How different branches are, even ones next door to each other.
I’ve got four branches within ten miles, and they’re chalk and cheese. How they run transport, how they run the yard, the products they stock, everything’s different.
It was an eye-opener.
32:36 | Paul:
You’ve stepped into this role during a downturn. Tough market, added costs, National Insurance changes. What are you focusing on?
33:03 | Cameron:
Back to basics. Sales, margins, overhead control. Just basic trading.
33:43 | Rob:
Sales. Just sales.
When I did the assessment day and they asked to describe a good builders’ merchant in 100 words, I was tempted to write “sales” 99 times and then “thanks.”
We’ve just got to get as much through the door as we can and ride it out. It’s cyclical. If you dig in when times are tough, you’re in a good footing when it turns.
Protect your good staff. Keep them.
36:15 | Paul:
How much of your week is planned versus reactive?
36:41 | Cameron:
About 80% planned, 20% reactive. I try and have the next two weeks outlined in my calendar. Otherwise I get anxious.
But you’ve still got to have flexibility.
37:25 | Rob:
Same. When I first started, I tried to do three branches in a day, ridiculous. No quality time.
Now it’s one branch a day, properly. Fridays tend to be catch-up, either from home or in an office.
40:21 | Paul:
How are you finding the increased driving?
41:14 | Rob:
I’m knackered when I get home. I used to have half an hour to decompress. Now it might be an hour and a half. But the driving itself doesn’t bother me.
42:56 | Paul:
How do you manage email overload while travelling?
43:22 | Cameron:
Friday is catch-up day. And prioritisation, knowing what you can park and what you can’t.
47:55 | Paul:
Quickfire questions.
What makes a good leader and a high-performing team?
48:01 | Rob:
A good leader listens, takes on opinions, but has conviction.
A high-performing team is about the right people in the right roles. Succession planning is key. Replacing key staff is the hardest thing you’ll do as a manager.
49:20 | Cameron:
Be a good listener. Back yourself. If something’s not working, change it.
49:54 | Paul:
Favourite part of the job?
50:00 | Rob:
Feeling like I’ve made a difference. Even a small change, walking a yard with fresh eyes and suggesting something simple, and seeing it implemented.
51:44 | Cameron:
Getting to know the managers better and appreciating how good they are.
52:23 | Paul:
Most difficult part?
52:30 | Cameron:
Not defaulting back to being a Branch Manager. Letting go.
53:18 | Rob:
The loneliness. You’re on your own a lot.
And delivering difficult decisions. Bad news often stops with us.
54:40 | Paul:
Most crucial trait for your role?
54:53 | Cameron:
Organisation and resilience.
55:24 | Rob:
Empathy. Don’t forget where you came from.
56:21 | Paul:
Best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?
56:34 | Cameron:
Don’t get too high when it’s good, don’t get too low when it’s bad.
57:06 | Rob:
If you can look in the mirror and say you’ve done your best, you won’t be far off success.
57:42 | Paul (Closing):
Thank you both for coming on. It’s great to see you developing from Branch Managers into Regional Managers and bringing fresh perspective into the business.
To our viewers and listeners, thanks for joining us. Watch out for more episodes coming soon.
Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
58:27 | [Music]