Part 2 of our International Women's Day episodes, Talasey's Rebecca Hughes & Soudal's Lauren De Meester sit with guest host Alex Maude and talk about their experiences of becoming a successful woman in a male dominated sector.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
- Lauren and Rebecca's career journeys and non-traditional routes into the industry
- About early challenges and building confidence
- How attitudes have changed over time
- How important it is to attract more women into the industry
Transcript
0:00 | Alex M:
Hello and welcome back to the 1840 podcast. I’m Alex Maude, the Building Category Manager for the business, and I’ll be your host for today’s episode of Women in Merchanting, but this time from a supplier’s perspective.
0:14 | Alex M:
We thought we’d change things up a little with it being International Women’s Day on the 8th of March, a day that we like to recognise and celebrate as a business and an industry.
0:24 | Alex M:
It’s great to introduce Rebecca Hughes from Talasey and Lauren De Meester from Soudal to join me to discuss what it’s like being a woman within the builders’ merchants industry, the challenges we face throughout the course of our careers, and how things have changed over the years ,from being predominantly a male dominated industry, to moving towards a 50/50 split of both men and women across our supply chain and the industry of builders’ merchants.
0:46 | Alex M:
So welcome to you both. Thank you for joining me, it’s great to have you on board.
0:52 | Lauren:
Yeah, great, thank you for the invite.
0:54 | Rebecca:
No worries. Nice to be here.
0:56 | Alex M:
No worries. Just to get us started, from my point of view I obviously know who you are and know what you both do, but from an audience perspective they don’t, and may never really have come across you.
1:05 | Alex M:
So I’d like you both to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do within your businesses.
1:11 | Alex M:
I’ll start with you, Lauren, if that’s alright.
1:14 | Lauren:
Yeah, of course.
1:16 | Lauren:
So I’m Lauren. I work for Soudal. I’ve been with the company for six years. I look after the key accounts.
1:25 | Lauren:
I started actually as an Area Sales Manager and worked my way up. My current job role is National Account Manager.
1:36 | Lauren:
So that’s on the work side of things. I guess I should tell a little bit more about myself as a person as well.
1:42 | Alex M:
Absolutely.
1:43 | Lauren:
So, I like to play squash in my spare time. I’m not very good, but I have fun on court, there’s lots of giggles and fun.
1:58 | Lauren:
And another thing, and I might be making a big fool out of myself here, but I like to play Dungeons and Dragons. So I wear the nerdy badge with honour and pride.
2:10 | Alex M:
Good. Fantastic. Definitely different, and definitely different from builders’ merchants!
2:16 | Lauren:
Oh, definitely. Yeah. I don’t know if I should be exposing myself like this, but I have now, so, hey.
2:22 | Alex M:
And Rebecca, what about you?
2:24 | Rebecca Hughes:
Yeah, I’m Rebecca Hughes. I’m the Marketing Director at Talasey.
2:30 | Rebecca Hughes:
I’ve been with them since 2012, that was the year I joined. I have been away from the business for a couple of years in different marketing roles, but still within the industry.
2:40 | Rebecca Hughes:
And I came back just over two years ago now.
2:45 | Rebecca Hughes:
So my remit is to look after the marketing team, branding, product marketing, customer marketing ,but I probably get involved a lot more in the events and the customer-facing side of marketing.
2:56 | Alex M:
Fantastic. Anything else about you personally?
3:01 | Rebecca Hughes:
Well, I would love to say I have some really interesting hobbies, but with a full-time job and being a full-time mum to a lovely 13-year-old, and my gorgeous little dog, I don’t have that much time for myself.
3:14 | Rebecca Hughes:
But when I do, it’s really spending quality time with friends and family, trying to do some training when I can, and walking the dog as well. Not been very good these past few weeks.
3:27 | Alex M:
Fantastic.
3:28 | Alex M:
Well, obviously you’ve both got some fantastic jobs within your businesses, but just out of interest, how did you actually get into the builders’ merchants industry, with it being so male dominated?
3:40 | Lauren:
Well… I think it’s not something that a lot of people necessarily choose to start a career in, and I’m definitely one of those people. Not that there’s anything wrong with doing that, by the way.
3:54 | Lauren:
But, for people with a keen eye, they can tell that I’m not British. I’m Belgian, and I moved to the UK in 2017 for an internship, an internship in psychology.
4:10 | Lauren:
I studied at university. It wasn’t kind of what I expected it to be, which is when I also decided that’s not what I want to do.
4:18 | Lauren:
But I decided to stay in the UK because I made some really nice connections, and I obviously needed to find a job.
4:26 | Lauren:
I got approached by a recruiter who got me in touch with Soudal, who, coincidentally, for people who do not know, are also a Belgian company. So from my point of view, that was a nice fit.
4:39 | Lauren:
And what I find nice about Soudal as well is they basically took a chance on me, because I had no work experience whatsoever, and it’s turned out alright.
4:54 | Alex M:
100%.
4:55 | Lauren:
When I applied for the role, I’d never even held a cartridge gun. So, yes, trying to demo that now is a lot easier than then, let’s put it that way.
5:07 | Alex M:
Absolutely. Did you find you had a bit of a language barrier when you originally started?
5:13 | Lauren:
I’m going to sound very sad now, but I go into my inbox and scroll back about six years, and sometimes I read those emails again, and it’s just like, “She was so...”
5:24 | Lauren:
And her English was… well, not fluent at all. So that’s been a nice transition as well.
5:33 | Lauren:
And it’s very nice that the UK and the construction market basically welcomed that, and don’t shy away from someone trying something they might not be 100% comfortable with.
5:43 | Lauren:
I think that’s a good thing about the building industry: you don’t necessarily have to have all that experience. Just the fact that you’re willing, and want to get up and have that drive, makes such a difference.
5:59 | Alex M:
Clearly you’ve shown that from the journey you’ve been on.
6:03 | Lauren:
Yeah,100%. Big journey. Long journey.
6:06 | Alex M:
Absolutely. Yeah.
6:08 | Alex M:
What about you, Rebecca?
6:10 | Rebecca Hughes:
Well, I started the world of work as more of a project manager kind of role within the professional services industry.
6:18 | Rebecca Hughes:
And the role developed into more of a marketing spin, so I started doing marketing qualifications with the CIM, and that’s where I thought I would stay.
6:29 | Rebecca Hughes:
And when I was seven months pregnant with my boy, the company I worked for at the time went bust, and I was like, “What do I do now?”
6:38 | Rebecca Hughes:
So I went self-employed for a little bit, but then I soon realised that having a newborn and being self-employed was a little bit more tiring than I expected it to be.
6:51 | Rebecca Hughes:
After about a year or so, obviously I did have some time off, and I did some self-employed work, I put my CV out there and I got a phone call from a very lovely lady called Bridget, who is still with the company.
7:06 | Rebecca Hughes:
We were called Natural Paving Products at that point. She called me and said, “We’ve seen your CV and we’re looking for somebody in marketing, would you come and speak to us?”
7:15 | Rebecca Hughes:
So I didn’t really know that much about the company or who they supplied at that point. I did the research before the interview, but I wasn’t thinking about the gender divide at that point. It just never entered my head.
7:30 | Rebecca Hughes:
I went along for the interview, was successful, and it kind of went from there.
7:38 | Rebecca Hughes:
But from a point of view of thinking, “Am I going into the construction industry or the merchant industry, which is heavily male dominated?”, like I say, it just wasn’t something I considered at the time.
7:49 | Alex M:
I’ve had a similar experience. It’s not something I really anticipated as much as it is the case.
7:56 | Alex M:
You do come up against some good blokes. You need to show how to use a product, and I was 25, a lot slimmer than I am now, and they were like, “What’s this little lady trying to tell me?”
8:12 | Alex M:
But it shapes a person in a way.
8:15 | Rebecca Hughes:
It does.
8:16 | Alex M:
And for me, it was almost a positive experience, because after several months on the job I realised I actually can do it.
8:25 | Alex M:
And if I’m assertive enough, and tell them, “Look, I’ve got the knowledge, you just need to listen to me,” they will.
8:34 | Alex M:
It takes guts, doesn’t it, as an individual, to stand up there and confront some of these people within the industry and say, “Yeah, I am here to do a job, and I can do it.”
8:48 | Alex M:
Just because we’re women doesn’t mean we’ve got any lesser knowledge or experience than anybody else in the room.
8:57 | Alex M:
So it is tough when you first get going, but it is one of those industries that, when I first went into it, I fell into it, and I would never want to come out of it, because you do fall in love with it.
9:09 | Alex M:
And I think that’s the great thing about the industry, the people you meet day-to-day, that ultimately makes your job worth doing.
9:18 | Alex M:
Touching on being a woman within the industry, and obviously coming across contentious conversations throughout your working career, how have you managed it when you’ve had a male colleague that has questioned your knowledge or your ability to do your job?
9:41 | Lauren:
Throughout… I’ve not really had a male colleague question whether I had the knowledge and capabilities to do the role.
9:52 | Lauren:
Because what I did when I started, like I said, I started from zero. The bar was low.
9:58 | Lauren:
But I quickly raised it, because I realised to stand your ground you’ve got to have that knowledge.
10:05 | Lauren:
So I educated myself to the absolute point that I had a Soudal catalogue on my nightstand for a long time, because I felt like that’s what I needed to do to be confident selling the products and talking about the products.
10:22 | Lauren:
So in my experience there was never a colleague who undermined me by questioning that.
10:30 | Lauren:
And when you’re in joint meetings, what I try to do is come prepared. I’ve got some notes for today as well that I might use later.
10:42 | Lauren:
If you’re prepared and confident about your capabilities and your knowledge about your products, then you can be assertive about it.
10:52 | Lauren:
And if you exude that kind of energy, then… it’s not something I’ve experienced, honestly.
11:04 | Alex M:
Oh, great. It’s great you’ve not experienced it, because it can be quite daunting.
11:10 | Alex M:
You do sometimes think, “I’m not quite sure I’m capable of having this conversation,” or “Should I actually be in this room?”
11:18 | Alex M:
But when you look back, it probably, certainly from my perspective, made me stronger in the role I’m doing, with who I may come across from time to time.
11:28 | Alex M:
But Rebecca, what about yourself?
11:33 | Rebecca Hughes:
Well, there have been times where I’ve had difficult conversations.
11:38 | Rebecca Hughes:
I remember I’d only been in the world of work probably about a year or so, and I was in a consultancy.
11:45 | Rebecca Hughes:
Reflecting on what you said about being prepared and having knowledge, because I was new in the role and a younger version of myself, I didn’t have that self-confidence.
11:55 | Rebecca Hughes:
And I was put in a position where I was working with somebody very senior, and I didn’t know that much about the business. I hadn’t had the chance to learn everything, so I was a little bit on the back foot, and I was aware of that.
12:08 | Rebecca Hughes:
And I don’t know if this influenced it, but my dad, lovely guy, very old-fashioned, and I’d been brought up with: you respect your elders, women respect men…
12:22 | Rebecca Hughes:
…and anybody above you in age or seniority, there’s a… So I’d been brought up being not fearful, but very respectful.
12:31 | Rebecca Hughes:
I was in work one day and one of my first tasks was to produce a new website. The president of the company, there were two guys that ran it, one was the president and one was the MD, and the president didn’t get into the day-to-day very often.
12:46 | Rebecca Hughes:
But he came in and asked me to go into the boardroom with him, shut the door, and I’m thinking, “Oh… okay.”
12:54 | Rebecca Hughes:
I’d not had many interactions with him, I didn’t know him very well, what’s he going to say?
13:01 | Rebecca Hughes:
And he had a load of paperwork in his hands and he slammed it down on the desk as hard as he could. It made a right bang.
13:08 | Rebecca Hughes:
I was like a rabbit in headlights. Looking back, it felt like he was trying to intimidate me.
13:16 | Rebecca Hughes:
He basically queried some of the copy that was being written for the website, saying, “This is shocking, we can’t have this on the website. This is one of the key pieces of copy. Just admit you’ve written it and we’ll sort it out together.”
13:33 | Rebecca Hughes:
And I hadn’t actually written it. His partner, the MD, had written it.
13:40 | Rebecca Hughes:
So I’m thinking, “How do I approach this?”
13:44 | Rebecca Hughes:
I said, “Look, we can rewrite it, that’s fine. They’re not particularly my words, but we can rewrite it.”
13:52 | Rebecca Hughes:
And he went, “Come on, of course it is. Just admit it. You made a mistake. You’re not very good at this. Let’s just sort it out together.”
14:03 | Rebecca Hughes:
In the end I said, “I’m really sorry, but actually the MD wrote that, because he was quite passionate about that section and wanted to do it himself.”
14:13 | Rebecca Hughes:
And then he started backtracking and laughing, and… really. I was like, “Yeah.”
14:18 | Alex M:
How did it make you feel in that moment?
14:22 | Rebecca Hughes:
Absolutely… with how I’d been brought up, and being so new in that role and environment, I just didn’t know what to do.
14:31 | Rebecca Hughes:
But it was a really good learning curve. A brilliant learning curve.
14:36 | Rebecca Hughes:
Other women in the business said that person had been notorious for having a go, almost, and reducing women to tears in some instances, then building them back up.
14:47 | Rebecca Hughes:
I’ve never got that logic. I’ve never come across anybody quite like that since.
14:53 | Rebecca Hughes:
And it absolutely wasn’t this industry, but yeah, that was really hard to take.
14:59 | Rebecca Hughes:
But like I said, a great learning curve, and since then I’ve absolutely made sure: if I’m going into something, I’m going in with all the facts, or as many as I can.
15:12 | Rebecca Hughes:
So if I do get challenged…
15:14 | Rebecca Hughes:
And one other thing worth mentioning, in a previous role within this industry ,was working with a merchant.
15:20 | Rebecca Hughes:
I’d been asked to pick up and implement a rewards programme for trade customers. I had to go into the boardroom and present it, daunting enough, because apart from me and the HR Director, everybody else around that table were all men.
15:39 | Rebecca Hughes:
They’d all been with the business a long time, very knowledgeable, and I’d been there less than two months.
15:46 | Rebecca Hughes:
So I was thinking, “Okay, right, back to fire. Let’s go.”
15:52 | Rebecca Hughes:
It went okay. And the two main stakeholders I needed buy-in from to execute this operationally, one was on board, wanted to get involved, and the other one was like: “It’s not worth it. Not worth investing in. I don’t want my part of the business having anything to do with it.”
16:16 | Rebecca Hughes:
He wasn’t rude, but I was like, “Okay, fine.”
16:21 | Rebecca Hughes:
We ran the pilot, got sign-off, and to be fair, after the board meeting he said, “Look, good luck with it, but I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere.”
16:33 | Rebecca Hughes:
And I said, “Okay, we’ll see.”
16:35 | Alex M:
Sometimes that gives you determination to make it work, doesn’t it?
16:39 | Rebecca Hughes:
Well, the pilot went really well, and that same person came up to me after it had been wrapped up and analysed and said, “So when this gets rolled out, can I make sure my part of the business is involved?”
16:50 | Rebecca Hughes:
And I said, “Absolutely, I’d be thrilled.”
16:54 | Rebecca Hughes:
That was good enough for me, because I thought: you weren’t convinced at the start, that’s fine, but having the opportunity to prove and demonstrate something was… I’ll take that.
17:07 | Alex M:
Yeah, take the back seat and work on it, and somebody else will jump on board.
17:12 | Alex M:
It’s nice to be able to prove something could work.
17:16 | Rebecca Hughes:
Absolutely.
17:17 | Alex M:
So how do you think attitudes have changed over the years with women within builders’ merchants?
17:23 | Lauren:
I think they’ve become more positive.
17:27 | Lauren:
When you walk into a merchant now versus five years ago, in my experience, there were virtually no women, and now almost every branch has at least one woman, if not two.
17:44 | Lauren:
And is it behind the counter? Is it doing admin? Is it on the road? Is it in the yard? It’s really refreshing to see that.
17:52 | Lauren:
But not just in merchants, also in senior positions. Which means they’ve worked their way up, they’ve been given chances, and I think that’s important in general.
18:07 | Alex M:
Absolutely.
18:09 | Alex M:
I remember one of the first times I walked into a merchant, one of our customer branches, and it was to make sure the point-of-sale we sent out was front and centre and doing its job.
18:24 | Alex M:
I was still getting used to that world too, and there were builders driving out and doing wolf whistles and “Oi!” and I was like, “Really? Wow, is that still happening?”
18:38 | Alex M:
I’ll never forget that.
18:41 | Alex M:
I don’t know if that happens as much now.
18:44 | Rebecca Hughes:
No, I don’t think it does.
18:47 | Alex M:
From my side, as Category Manager, I’m seeing more women suppliers coming through, which is great. It’s good to have that mix.
18:56 | Alex M:
And in meetings, with yourself, Lauren, and when Andy’s in, it’s great to see the split, and the bounce you get, because we all look at things in a different perspective.
19:18 | Alex M:
Women look at it differently sometimes to men and bringing that into meetings and projects helps drive things forward.
19:29 | Rebecca Hughes:
There’s one other example that I don’t think would happen now at all, this must have been 11 or 12 years ago.
19:37 | Rebecca Hughes:
I was at an exhibition in London, I’ve forgotten which show, but it was back when we were Natural Paving.
19:47 | Rebecca Hughes:
One of the guys on the team, retired now, lovely man, but very old school and traditional.
19:56 | Rebecca Hughes:
We’d just set the exhibition stand. Doors were about to open. We were talking about what we hoped to get from the day, messaging, things like that.
20:06 | Rebecca Hughes:
He looked around the room, looked at me up and down, and I was like, “What?”
20:14 | Rebecca Hughes:
I had a trouser suit on, and he said, “You should really be wearing a dress. Why aren’t you wearing a dress?”
And I just went “Why aren’t you?”
20:23 | Alex M:
Brilliant. What a comeback, I love it.
20:26 | Rebecca Hughes:
Absolutely love it. And he laughed it off, and he did leave it then.
20:31 | Rebecca Hughes:
He was a really nice guy, I don’t want to speak ill of him, but I don’t think you’d get that comment now, because I think he actually meant it.
20:41 | Rebecca Hughes:
And that shows the change over the years in how men interact with women, and how women interact with men.
20:50 | Rebecca Hughes:
You don’t need those comments in a room, because we’re all there to do a job, and as long as we get it done, we’ve ticked the box and done what we set out to do that day.
21:06 | Lauren:
There are a lot more women tradies now as well, and that’s definitely helped with the transition from catcalling to being respected.
21:18 | Alex M:
So how do you think we can attract more women into the industry, to move towards that 50/50 split we spoke about earlier?
21:25 | Alex M:
Lauren, do you want to go first?
21:29 | Lauren:
Yeah.
21:30 | Lauren:
There are a couple of things worth mentioning because they’re quite current and things are happening right now.
21:36 | Lauren:
So I’m part of the BMF’s Making a Material Difference initiative, and I represent Talasey within the initiative.
21:44 | Lauren:
That’s setting out to attract not only younger people to the industry, and people thinking about career change, but also women.
21:52 | Lauren:
So I think if, as an industry, more of us can get behind that, the outreach and promotion they’re trying to do, it will help attract more women.
22:03 | Lauren:
I’m also part of the Construction Inclusion Coalition. They have a forum called Elevate.
22:09 | Lauren:
And I feel really bad because I’ve missed the past couple of forums due to work commitments, but that particular forum is about supporting women within the industry, and looking at how we can improve equality and the gender split.
22:28 | Lauren:
So again, something else I think, if we can all get behind and support it, might help make inroads.
22:36 | Rebecca Hughes:
I echo that, the BMF initiative is brilliant.
22:44 | Rebecca Hughes:
And like I mentioned before, everyone says, “They didn’t choose this industry, they rolled into it.”
22:51 | Rebecca Hughes:
But the initiative is brilliant to change that, so people actually want to become, or pursue, a career in the construction industry.
23:07 | Rebecca Hughes:
And in my personal experience, they always take a chance on you. They’re not picky.
23:13 | Rebecca Hughes:
The industry is great, it’s about women coming together, men coming together, mixing, and those different perspectives really do make sure the job you set out to do is successful.
23:31 | Rebecca Hughes:
And I’m all about the best person for the job. If there’s a man that’s the better candidate for a particular role, absolutely, the man should get the job.
23:41 | Rebecca Hughes:
But if there were more women applying, if roles were more visible, that would help.
23:48 | Rebecca Hughes:
I was on a panel for the BMF initiative at an event last year, and I remember saying: I would love to meet somebody who says, “I’ve always wanted to work in merchanting or construction,” rather than, “I just fell into it.”
24:09 | Rebecca Hughes:
If we start hearing that, the campaign has been successful.
24:21 | Alex M:
Over the years we’ve seen a lot of policies change, maternity, paternity, menopause becoming more and more of a subject, but the gender pay gap has definitely been on everybody’s radar too.
24:34 | Alex M:
Do you think it’s where it needs to be now, or is there still more work to be done?
24:44 | Lauren:
I think there’s always work to be done, not just on gender pay gap, but diversity in general.
24:55 | Lauren:
It’s difficult to…
25:00 | Lauren:
I felt the need to ask internally as well, and it is something that, as a company, Soudal researches and makes sure it’s not present, that was the answer based on the research I had.
25:17 | Lauren:
But that’s not something every company devotes resources to.
25:25 | Lauren:
And I’m a firm believer: your salary needs to reflect your capabilities, your merits, your experience.
25:37 | Lauren:
And it’s sometimes also on the person, you have to address it when you’re not happy with it.
25:49 | Lauren:
If that falls on deaf ears, then I think that’s a sign you’re in the wrong company or the wrong business.
26:00 | Lauren:
But yeah, there’s definitely still work to be done.
26:06 | Rebecca Hughes:
In my experience, the companies I’ve worked for, there’s not been anything obvious that would make me question it.
26:14 | Rebecca Hughes:
So I haven’t got personal experience of that.
26:18 | Rebecca Hughes:
Where I am at the moment, there’s a salary agreed, the job goes out, you recruit for that job.
26:26 | Rebecca Hughes:
I assume there’s flexibility, if someone is experienced and can hit the ground running, or you take a chance on someone with less experience and build them up.
26:38 | Rebecca Hughes:
But I’ve never been in a company where I thought it was a suspicion or worry, and that’s probably why I’m still with Talasey.
26:49 | Lauren:
Just to put it out there, I also have not experienced it personally, but I am aware of it.
26:57 | Lauren:
We’d be naive to think it doesn’t exist.
27:02 | Alex M:
Absolutely. I think within the builders’ merchants industry it is there, and it’s becoming more and more a topic of conversation.
27:10 | Alex M:
Addressing it and giving equal opportunity, regardless of whether you’re a woman or a man, to go for the job role is key, and doing that job as a person and individual is what we all strive to do.
27:22 | Alex M:
So touching on making sure women and men are treated exactly the same, where do you feel there’s more equality needed, and more gender flexibility needed within the industry?
27:34 | Lauren:
I think equality is about getting equal chances, not necessarily getting the exact same treatment, because you’re different, and it’s got to be right for the individual.
27:49 | Lauren:
Sorry, I’ve lost my train of thought.
27:57 | Alex M:
Absolutely, go on.
28:00 | Lauren:
So, yeah, equal chances.
28:03 | Lauren:
For example: when a CV passes your desk, do not look at gender. Look at someone’s actual CV, instead of deciding, “Ah, Rebecca? Nah, don’t want her on my team.”
28:17 | Lauren:
Or, “I’ve got enough women to deal with at home already.”
28:21 | Lauren:
It’s things like that that are important and need to be in people’s minds.
28:28 | Lauren:
I’m not saying that happens constantly, but it can do from time to time.
28:36 | Rebecca Hughes:
I think from what I see of the industry at the moment, the divide is balancing up, especially in marketing.
28:46 | Rebecca Hughes:
My marketing team is predominantly women. Back-office functions, finance and HR, often have more women too.
28:55 | Rebecca Hughes:
But within Talasey it’s quite equal, probably at least a 50/50 ratio overall.
29:03 | Rebecca Hughes:
We’ve got some in the external team, but I think if there’s a gap anywhere, it’s the external world and some leadership roles.
29:13 | Rebecca Hughes:
Having said that, our SLT is at least a third female, so it is very much “best person for the job.”
29:22 | Rebecca Hughes:
But I do think gaps exist more in external sales, commercial positions, and leadership roles.
29:30 | Alex M:
And I’m seeing it more in builders’ merchants now too, more women in transport, sales, external sales.
29:40 | Alex M:
So we’re not just seeing women in admin and back-office positions, which is great.
29:55 | Alex M:
I remember one of my first events, a buying group golf day. I went for the evening because I don’t play golf.
30:05 | Alex M:
I parked up and had to pass the clubhouse to get to reception. I was younger, walking past with my suitcase and my dress, and I looked up and it was just a sea of men.
30:22 | Alex M:
I remember thinking, “Wow. Okay. I feel outnumbered.”
30:28 | Alex M:
That evening there must have been 200 people there, and I bet I counted five or six women in the room including me, and a lot of those were branch managers and commercial roles.
30:42 | Alex M:
Now you go to a similar event and there’s definitely been a change, but I don’t think we’re there yet.
30:55 | Rebecca Hughes:
No, I agree, we’re not there yet.
31:00 | Rebecca Hughes:
But we’ve made massive inroads over the last few years, and we need to keep moving to hopefully get to a 50/50 split across suppliers and merchants.
31:12 | Lauren:
I think like you said, back-office roles, there are always going to be some roles that women are more interested in than men, and it’s about what’s right for the individual.
31:26 | Lauren:
But when you’re giving opportunities, you need to give them to the employee, not depending on gender.
31:34 | Lauren:
And that’s definitely the case at Soudal.
31:39 | Lauren:
I like to think I’m an example of that, the same at Talasey.
31:45 | Lauren:
So it’s going in the right direction, and hopefully it will keep going.
31:52 | Alex M:
Absolutely.
31:53 | Alex M:
So just before we close, I’ve got some quick-fire questions to round up and give our listeners and viewers something about you, how you see your job roles and what you’re interested in.
32:05 | Alex M:
First one: favourite part of your job?
32:11 | Lauren:
The people.
32:12 | Alex M:
Rebecca, you?
32:14 | Rebecca Hughes:
People. Networking.
32:16 | Alex M:
What’s the most difficult part of your job?
32:21 | Lauren:
Having to say no.
32:23 | Alex M:
Yeah, that can be hard.
32:27 | Lauren:
To anyone really, but yeah. It’s something I’m trying to be better at.
32:34 | Lauren:
I think that comes with time and experience.
32:39 | Alex M:
I definitely felt that when I first started, you want to be seen to do everything, be at everybody’s back and call.
32:47 | Alex M:
But your time’s precious, and what you do is precious, so you have to have boundaries. Don’t let people take advantage.
32:56 | Rebecca Hughes:
For me, and wherever I’ve worked in marketing, the hardest thing is trying to please everybody.
33:03 | Rebecca Hughes:
What we do is so visible, and everyone has an opinion, so we can never get it right for everyone.
33:10 | Rebecca Hughes:
And if we make a mistake in marketing, there’s a fair chance more people will see it than you’d like.
33:18 | Rebecca Hughes:
Whereas a mistake in another part of the business might not be as visible, so it can be rectified without anybody knowing it’s happened.
33:30 | Alex M:
Third: what critical traits do you need to possess in your role?
33:38 | Lauren:
Motivation.
33:40 | Lauren:
One of the reasons I enjoy the people I work with is because they motivate me.
33:46 | Lauren:
There’s intrinsic motivation as well, but you get energy from each other, you bounce off.
33:54 | Lauren:
But you need to have that internally too, so motivation is very important.
34:03 | Rebecca Hughes:
For my role: resilience.
34:06 | Rebecca Hughes:
And the other one would be passion, care about what you do, who you work for, who your customers are. You’ve got to care.
34:13 | Alex M:
And finally: what’s the best piece of advice you’d give to someone coming into the builders’ merchants industry?
34:19 | Lauren:
Take it with a grain of salt, we’re here to earn a living, we’re not here to live, kind of thing.
34:34 | Lauren:
If something rubs you the wrong way, it’s not personal, and if it is, then that’s their fault.
34:49 | Rebecca Hughes:
I’d probably say: make the most of it and embrace it.
34:54 | Rebecca Hughes:
Work hard, play hard, enjoy it.
34:59 | Alex M:
I feel like I wanted to give that answer but I didn’t.
35:02 | Alex M:
We’ve touched on quite a few things there, motivation, having passion for the job. That definitely makes your job a lot easier.
35:09 | Alex M:
And motivation, if you haven’t got any, then doing your job can be quite difficult.
35:16 | Alex M:
So thank you to you both for joining me. It’s been great to have you on board and agreeing to do the podcast with me.
35:25 | Alex M:
Definitely something new for myself, and I’m sure it has been for you.
35:30 | Alex M:
And hopefully our viewers and listeners will have taken something away from today’s podcast.
35:36 | Alex M:
I’m not going to read the comments, so no, I’m not watching!
35:42 | Alex M:
I’d just like to say thank you very much for listening, and I hope you’ve enjoyed today’s podcast.
35:49 | Alex M:
It’s been great to have everybody following the 1840 podcast, and I’m hoping that after this one, where you’ve had a little bit of a different host, you’ll still keep on board and keep following us all over our social media as we continue our journey on the podcast.