Our first customer focused episode! Paul is joined by Chris Allen (CatioKing) where he talks about how he fell into the niche area of bespoke cat enclosures.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
- About his time serving in the Army and how that affected him physically and mentally
- The importance of social media is when it comes to promoting his business
- And much more on bespoke cat enclosures!
Transcript
0:00 | Paul Bullivant (Host):
1 2 3 4. Welcome back to the Howarth Timber and Building Supplies 1840 Podcast. I’m your host, Paul Bullivant, and today our episode features our very first customer, and that’s Chris Allen.
Welcome.
0:18 | Chris Allen:
Alright.
0:19 | Paul:
Chris, thanks for coming aboard. There’s a really interesting story with Chris. We’ve been planning a customer episode even before we started the whole podcast, and Chris messaged us straight after seeing the first episode to say, “Would there be any chance I could get involved?”
Little did he know that we would probably snatch his offer up and get him straight in, because we’d been looking for a customer. So it was a really timely one.
Chris, thanks for coming.
0:43 | Chris:
No, just thanks for having me on.
0:45 | Paul:
You’re welcome.
What we’re going to talk about today is Chris’s career. He’s got a really interesting career that’s led him into the trade. We’re going to talk about his current business, which is Catio King, and then we’re going to finish off by trying to get your thoughts on what you really think about builders’ merchants, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
We’re particularly interested in learning from you. Basically, what we’re more interested in is the bad and the ugly rather than the good. So that’s it for today.
Do you want to start with an introduction?
1:17 | Chris:
Yeah, let’s go for it.
1:20 | Paul:
Right then.
1:21 | Chris:
Yeah, so I live in Doncaster, and that’s where the business is based, although I work all over the UK.
If it’s feasible, I’ve been up to Scotland for work, down West Country, down Folkestone, you name it, it takes me all over the place. I’m trying to shrink that radius because it’s nice to get home at the end of the day to my tea, but if I have to stay in a hotel and have a microwave job then that’s it.
But it wasn’t something I thought I was going to have a go at, if you know what I mean. It kind of… well, I got my joinery qualifications after the Army, so let’s say I probably stitched myself up here.
2:01 | Paul:
I should say, let’s start right back at the beginning. Before you went into the trade, you were in the Army.
2:08 | Chris:
Yes, that’s it.
2:09 | Paul:
What took you into the Army originally?
2:12 | Chris:
There’s a long heritage of family being in the armed forces. My dad was Royal Marines, my mum was Women’s Royal Naval Service, my dad’s twin brother was RAF. It’s all the forces then between them.
2:24 | Paul:
So all the forces, all the way there.
2:26 | Chris:
That’s it. Going really far back there’s family that have been in both World Wars and all sorts. So it’s in the blood.
2:34 | Paul:
It’s in the blood, yeah.
2:35 | Chris:
Well, that’s it. As a little lad I always wanted to do it anyway. We were always playing army and all that sort of stuff.
So yeah, it just got to a natural point where I thought, before I get any older, I need to get it done.
2:48 | Paul:
What age did you sign up?
2:50 | Chris:
Twenty-four.
2:51 | Paul:
Okay that’s quite old, yeah.
2:53 | Chris:
Yeah, I was quite old. I left it a bit. I’d moved out, I’d been into higher education, I’d started doing a music degree. I got to first-year point in that and I was just like, “You know what? I need to do it now.” This is not doing it for me.
3:09 | Paul:
So it was a degree you were doing?
3:11 | Chris:
Yes, a music degree, because I play bass guitar.
I wanted to go up that career path, but it just started petering out and getting boring. I absolutely love music, it’s there every day, but I just thought I need to do the armed forces thing before I get any younger.
3:28 | Paul:
Joining the forces at twenty-four must have been a complete culture shock.
3:33 | Chris:
It surprised me, yeah, because I’d gone from having long hair and smoking and that sort of stuff to, right, I need to be able to do a mile and a half in under ten and a half minutes, and so many sit-ups, so many press-ups, and all that sort of stuff.
It was an uphill struggle to settle, but
got there in the end.
3:52 | Paul:
And where did the Army take you?
3:55 | Chris:
We were based in Wiltshire.
As much as the recruiter wanted me to go to the Coldstream Guards because of my height, when he went off to make his photocopies I scribbled it out and put Yorkshire Regiment.
4:07 | Paul:
Good move.
4:08 | Chris:
That were a good move on my part.
The Yorkshire Regiment were based out of Wiltshire. The battalion I went to were the Duke of Wellington’s, which is an armoured infantry regiment. Salisbury Plain is basically where we do all the exercises.
But now they’re back up north where they belong, after I left.
4:27 | Paul:
Did you do all your training there?
4:29 | Chris:
Training was up at Catterick Garrison, biggest garrison in Europe.
Six months there, and then that was it, off to battalion to start doing… well, we basically got straight into pre-deployment training for Afghanistan.
4:42 | Paul:
Okay, so it was a busy time.
4:44 | Chris:
Very, very busy.
4:46 | Paul:
When would that have been?
4:48 | Chris:
That was 2009, when I left training.
4:52 | Paul:
Was that towards the end of things in Afghanistan, or…?
4:56 | Chris:
It was right when there was a period in between, because it was quite kinetic around that point.
The tour in Afghanistan is referred to as Operation Herrick, but we used to call it Op Herrick. Around Op Herrick 10, 11, that sort of thing, it was getting quite kinetic. Lots of casualties from different units and all that sort of stuff.
So that’s when we were building up to ours, which was Op Herrick 16. There were still quite a few tours to go before we actually got there, but we always had that in mind, that when we got there we were going to be mega busy, right into the middle of it.
5:34 | Paul:
We’ve got some pictures of you in Afghanistan, if Dave can put them up.
There we go. That’s you on the…
5:41 | Chris:
That’s me on the Husky. That armoured vehicle is referred to as a Husky.
It’s very… space is at a premium inside these vehicles, no matter which one you’re in, whether you’re in the Husky or in the bigger one called the Mastiff.
Fortunately for me, because I was a gunner, that was my role.
5:58 | Paul:
So you were the one sticking out of the top.
6:00 | Chris:
Well, that’s it. Better air for a start, and I didn’t have to talk to anybody.
You stick your head up and that’s it, you’re providing security, you’re eyes and ears for the vehicle.
6:10 | Paul:
Did you ever get shot at?
6:12 | Chris:
Not on the vehicles, no. Not on the vehicles, fortunately. But we did in the patrol bases a couple of times, but it was very sporadic.
If you just go to the next picture, that’s me out on patrol.
6:24 | Paul:
That’s you out on patrol there?
6:26 | Chris:
It is, yeah. We were just about to pull into an Afghan National Police station there.
We used to partner patrols where we’d basically just go out, do a show of force, let the Taliban know that we were out in the area, and if they wanted to come and have a go then they were welcome to it.
Then we would patrol to these police stations and just go and see them, see how they were, see if they needed anything, see if there was anything we could do, see if they wanted to come out and do a little patrol with us as well.
So yeah, we did absolutely all sorts. We went out on foot like that. It was a very mixed bag. We’d either go out on vehicle, sometimes, or we’d just go out on foot.
7:06 | Paul:
I’m assuming it was scary at times.
7:09 | Chris:
It was at first.
The first time I went out was when I’d just got dropped off by heli at the patrol base. Literally all my stuff was still in a pile, and they were asking for gunners for the vehicles, because one of the units we were doing a relief in place for still had personnel there that gradually left theatre as we gradually phased in.
They take you on patrol and say, right, we’ve had issues with this firing point, or this building, or this is a known area for IEDs, and they basically familiarise you with the area and then leave you to it.
They were like, “We need some gunners for the vehicles,” so I was just like, “Well… me then.”
As soon as I left the gate, the top of the turret was there, the bottom of the armour was there, and it was just… yeah.
But then, you know, you soon get used to it.
8:01 | Paul:
I can’t imagine what it’s like.
8:03 | Chris:
It’s a nervousness I’d never experienced before, but you soon get used to it.
You get confidence in your team and what you’re out there to do, and you quickly just focus on what you’ve got to do.
If worst case happens, worst case happens. There’s nothing you can do about it, but you know the guys to your left and the guys to your right are going to be there for you, no matter what.
8:27 | Paul:
When you were out on foot patrols, did you come across IEDs very often? Because as a civilian, reading and watching films, the threat of IEDs is almost… unreconcilable.
8:41 | Chris:
It’s weird, because if you see one then nine times out of ten you’re meant to see it.
They’re very cheeky with the way they do things.
8:50 | Paul:
Cheeky is probably an understatement, meant to kill you.
8:53 | Chris:
I know, but it might not even be a real one, it might be a dummy one.
Sometimes they’ll put them out and let you find it, and then while you’re focused on that you’ve got to go and take tactical cover and do a fingertip search, because that was one of the things we had to do. If you found something you had to confirm it was an IED, so everybody was trained to do searches.
If we did get a find and somebody did a fingertip search and confirm it was an IED, then we’d put a cordon out and get another callsign in, engineers or something like that, and they’d come and deal with it. Then we’d go into a security role and stop people getting into the area.
But civilians would always be on motorbikes all the time, weaving in and out of your cordon and not listening to you. You’d have ten kids on a bike as well, and shopping, and they just don’t care.
9:41 | Paul:
Don’t care there’s a 40-kilo device there.
9:43 | Chris:
Exactly.
Or we’d do what’s called mark and avoid. We’d get a ten-figure grid reference of where it is, mark it with spray paint or whatever, and just go around it.
9:56 | Paul:
What was life like in camp? Because I guess whenever you go out, you’ve got all those heightened emotions and senses and awareness and worry, and then back in camp there’s boredom and not a lot to do.
10:12 | Chris:
You’d get enough patrol, straight away you’d have a post-patrol brief and all that sort of stuff.
If you picked up any intelligence or anything then that’d get processed straight away. We used to take this thing out on patrol called a HIIDE camera, which had a fingerprint scanner, a retinal scanner, and a chemical kit. We’d swipe people’s fingertips and hands, and if it came up a certain colour it meant they’d been handling things like ammonium nitrate or there was gunshot residue.
Then that would get sent up and they’d get captured, basically, and tactically questioned.
Once all that had been dealt with, the patrol commander, whether it was corporal, sergeant, or whoever was leading the patrol , would just say, “Right, that’s it, nothing more for you. Thin out, go do your admin.”
So we’d strip out our kit, go get showered, make sure the weapons were unloaded but made safe. You always had your magazine on or your belt of ammunition, but the weapon wasn’t made ready. It was always good to go, because you couldn’t go anywhere without a weapon. Even if you were going to shower, you’d have your towel, your shower gel, and your general purpose machine gun.
11:20 | Paul:
In case of attack.
11:21 | Chris:
That’s it. If something grabbed over a wall or whatever, at least you were armed.
11:27 | Paul:
Could you ever relax then, if you always had a gun with you, whatever you were doing?
11:33 | Chris:
It’s weird, because you didn’t relax if you didn’t have your weapon. It became your safety blanket, almost.
One of the things I had to get over when I got back home was getting up in restaurants and then walking back to my table thinking I’d left my LMG, my light machine gun, and then thinking, “Hang on, this is Frankie & Benny’s, not Afghanistan.”
Little things like that gradually faded out.
But yeah, it was very boring once you got done. Unless you had some taskings from the Sergeant Major, some ammunition that needed moving, or bags that needed filling, or whatever, you were left to your own devices.
That’s when the devil makes work for idle hands, and that’s why I started taking apart pallets and things like that. We used to get all the resupplies from helicopters or trucks, and everything came on pallets. So I’d strip them down, save the timber, save the nails, and make stuff, furniture or weapon racks for the cookhouse.
12:30 | Paul:
Was that tough then, the quiet times?
12:33 | Chris:
Yeah, because it’s not just boredom. You start thinking as well. You start thinking about home.
Whereas I compartmentalised everything. I basically took family, took friends, put them in a box, shut the lid, and put it to the back of my mind.
I’d write home, we’d send what were called blues, which was our welfare system. You’d write your letters on a laptop and your family or friends would get a blue self-sealed letter through the post, or you could physically write one and send it in a blue envelope.
So yeah, I’d send blues home, but from that you just found stuff to do.
13:10 | Paul:
That mind chatter though, the voice we’ve all got in our heads chattering away, did that become a problem?
13:18 | Chris:
It was for me personally once we started taking casualties, because then you start replaying situations thinking, “Should I have done that? Should I have done this? Why didn’t I notice that before?”
13:31 | Paul:
Did you have casualties in your patrol, or do you mean wider in the base?
13:35 | Chris:
The patrol base for us was a central hub, so it was Patrol Base One, or PB1. That was the central location for Alpha Company, which was our company.
Around that we had little satellite places called checkpoints, like CP Torah, CP Shaka, and a couple that were manned by Afghan National Army, who we used to go up and visit because they were no more than 800 metres away, but they were further out into the green zone.
Those were the ones where we took casualties, unfortunately.
And that’s when I say you go over things all the time. The copper that did it was somebody I’d worked with every time I’d seen him, because I’d gone and done my language course, a low-level language course that was given out to certain people because it provided another facet on patrol to gather low-level intelligence.
So I could ask people, “Who is that?” or “Where is the IED?” or “Is this dangerous?” and all that sort of stuff.
I used to tag along with this guy, and he taught me little bits, taught me how to write my name in Pashto and all that sort of stuff. I developed a rapport with him.
That’s why, when I say I still think to myself, “Should I have spotted it?”
14:56 | Paul:
That’s tough to have that thought.
How long were you there for?
15:01 | Chris:
Six months.
15:03 | Paul:
Six months.
If you had your time again, looking back at it, and had the choice, would you go again?
15:11 | Chris:
Oh yeah. One hundred percent.
You’ll find a lot of lads and lasses who’ve done operational tours, and the vast majority will just say, “If they were offering to go tomorrow, I’d go.”
It’s a very simple existence being on operations. You don’t have to deal with the everyday stuff that you have to deal with at home. You’re not getting spam calls, dealing with bills, thinking, “I’ve got to go and get some bread,” or, “My car’s got to go in the garage on Monday.”
You literally get up, have your breakfast, do what you’re told to do, and that’s it. It’s so distilled and simple, it’s almost blissful sometimes.
15:55 | Paul:
What did you learn about yourself in that six months?
15:59 | Chris:
I learned a lot about resilience and adaptability.
It got to 55 degrees at some point. Great for dieting, by the way. The Osprey body armour we used to wear , the Osprey diet really does work. I went from 13 stone back to 11 stone. That was two stone, just from the amount of work you’re doing.
But the resilience came from getting perspective about what’s important. Before, when you were at home, you’d worry about things that were trivial. When you get back, you think, “You know what? That’s not actually that important anymore.”
It changes what you worry about.
16:40 | Paul:
That’s a good trait across life and business, resilience.
What did you learn about yourself? That you were more resilient than you thought?
16:48 | Chris:
Yeah. It made me really look at what’s important and what’s not. All the chaff can wait.
16:56 | Paul:
I once had someone on a training course say, “It is what it is.” Worry about what you need to worry about, but you don’t need to worry about everything equally.
17:06 | Chris:
Yeah, exactly. It made me really look at what’s important.
17:11 | Paul:
How did it come to an end then? Tour ends, six months are up, how do you come back into normality?
17:18 | Chris:
We came back in October. You had a nice big wedge of leave, and then what was called op reset, which was decompression and evented training.
Some lads went scuba diving and surfing in Bali, some went skiing in Bavaria.
17:34 | Paul:
What did you do?
17:36 | Chris:
I didn’t do anything, unfortunately. I put my name down for skiing and surfing and all that sort of stuff, but I ended up not doing it because at the time I was being accused of doing it to deliberately not spend time with my partner.
So I just thought, “You know what, I can’t be doing with the ear-bashing.”
I should have done it though, because it’s part of the reset and decompression.
18:02 | Paul:
So the decompression’s important.
18:04 | Chris:
Yeah, very. It’s all part and parcel of bringing you back down to earth.
You do some decompression in Cyprus, in a place called Bloodhound Camp, where there’s a section of beach fenced off to everybody else and it’s literally just for us. Free ice cream, barbecues at night, a few beers, you just chill and come back down to earth.
18:30 | Paul:
What was the decision to come out, then? Tour ended, why come out of the forces?
18:36 | Chris:
It was a natural stopping point for me. By law you’ve got to do four years minimum service.
I’d done what I wanted to do, scratched that itch that had come from the family history.
Also, the Army was making redundancies at the time. People on long-term medical downgrade were being let go. Others were being posted internally or to other units.
Me personally, I applied for early termination. Normally you did what was called the seven clicks, which took twelve months from application to sign-off, but mine was three months because early termination was accepted.
So come May 2013, I was out on street with my thumbs going, right, what now?
19:22 | Paul:
So you got a plan when you came out? Did you know what you wanted to do?
19:26 | Chris:
I knew I wanted to go to college and do joinery, because the day after I went to college and started joinery.
19:33 | Paul:
Why joinery?
19:35 | Chris:
Because I was already familiar with it. We’re talking about breaking pallets down and making all these things in the Army.
But also, when I was a little kid, I was always making stuff, little ships, swords, castles, anything. Me dad, my grandad, my stepdad, friends’ dads, everybody back then was handy. They could all turn their hand to something.
I’d just busy myself in the garage and make stuff, and while I was doing that I was learning how to use the tools, what they were supposed to do, what you shouldn’t do with them, and which ones not to touch at all.
So that’s where the joinery started. Then in the Army it just kept me entertained.
20:18 | Paul:
So you go to college. I’m assuming you sorted yourself out, got your qualification. What qualification was it?
20:24 | Chris:
The first one was NVQ Level 2 in site carpentry, and then the next one was Level 3.
I didn’t do Level 1 because they basically said, “Obviously you know where the saw is,” and all that sort of stuff.
Because I joined the Level 2 after it started, the boss said, “Make me one of these joints,” and as soon as he looked at it he just thought, yeah, he can join that.
20:49 | Paul:
So you got your qualifications, and I suppose you just went into the workplace?
20:55 | Chris:
Well, while I was doing the course on Monday and Tuesday, I got in touch with a mate of mine. He’s ex-Royal Engineers, self-employed, multi-skilled, plumbing, plastering, electrics, joinery, you name it, he can do it.
I laboured for him for a while.
Then, come 2015, when I was coming to the end of the course, that’s when I joined the Army Reserve. And that’s when I got put onto my mate Joe, who’s a roofer by trade but does all sorts. He took me on and I stayed with him for about five years.
That’s where I started doing my joinery, working with joiners as employed on day rate, and that’s where I really started to learn. You start driving, you know.
21:40 | Paul:
So then comes the stroke of fate that got you into the cat industry.
21:46 | Chris:
Right. So there’s a lass I’d known since I was young. She lives in Liverpool. I got to know her husband really well as well, and he got in touch with me.
He said, “You’re doing your joinery at the moment, aren’t you? I’ve got a customer in Barnsley. It’s out of area for me, but she wants this cat-proof netting fitted, and it’s easy to install. You’d easily be able to do it. Would you want to do it for me?”
So I said, yeah, fine, I’ll do that. And that was my first cat-based job really.
22:19 | Paul:
This is netting that goes over normal garden fencing to stop cats getting out?
22:24 | Chris:
That’s it, yeah. Company called ProtectaPet. It’s cat-proof fencing that angles inwards. The cats can climb up to the apex of the brackets and the netting, but they can’t go any further.
You do get certain breeds that can climb upside down, but then there’s additional stuff you can fit to mitigate that.
That was basically the open door into the cat sector of the industry.
22:50 | Paul:
So you randomly help out a friend by doing a job for them. At what point did you think, flipping heck, there’s a cat-based part of this industry and maybe that’s what I could join?
23:00 | Chris:
The more and more it became apparent, because as I spoke to Steve and Allan, his business partner, about it, they asked me if I’d be willing to travel a bit more.
Then it got to the point where they said, right, we do want you to do the installations for us, and we’ll just provide the kits and all that sort of stuff.
As that got more and more, there were occasions where Joe, who I was working with, would say, “This is what we’re going to work on next week,” and I’d think, “You know what, that works fine for me,” and then eventually it got to the point where I just said to him, “I’ve got loads of work on, and I’m going to go and do this for a bit,” and that was that really.
Then I was basically travelling the UK fitting this fence-top system for them.
But it got to the point where Steve got in touch and said, “This lady wants a cat-proofing solution, but it’s not suitable for the netting. But you can build her a catio.”
I was like… I’ll be honest, my Italian’s not that good, so I didn’t know what that meant.
24:01 | Paul:
So what is a catio? To help us with that, you’ve kindly sent some pictures through.
24:08 | Chris:
Right, so this one, a catio.
This is one of mine that I recently did. It’s an enclosure, one hundred percent cat proof. It lets your house cats out so they can experience the outside world, get enrichment, climb, hide in the boxes, scratch on poles, get exercise, and just experience what it’s like to be outside without getting stolen, run over, poisoned, and all that sort of stuff.
It’s also a space for everybody. The chair the customer has got in there is going to be the prime spot, you can sit out there with your brew while your cats are climbing everywhere.
It’s a family space at the end of the day, because they’re not just pets, they’re members of the family.
I really enjoyed doing this one because that box especially was a lot bigger than what I normally do, so it allowed me to put a lot more silhouettes into it.
You can also see there’s a little handrail at the top. That’s because two of the cats were brothers and they were both epileptic, so the client was worried that if they had a fit on the top level and fell off they might get injured.
So I built them one hundred percent bespoke because little things like that can be added in.
25:31 | Paul:
Where did you come up with all the little bits and pieces, the climbing rails and the levels?
25:37 | Chris:
I just make them.
When I first started out I was looking for inspiration online because there are a lot of companies in the US, but I basically looked at what people were doing and what they weren’t doing, which is just as important, and filled the gap.
That one, for example, I’d seen on internal cat furniture where people cat-proof a room in the house rather than an outside space. That one was a 12 foot by 8 foot shed, and then I built a 12 foot by 12 foot catio on the side of it, which allowed me to use certain features that wouldn’t normally be feasible on the outside.
That ladder there is made out of 18 mil ply. It’s one I’d been wanting to do for ages, like a hexagon ladder, because it looks completely different. It’s more enriching for them because they can hop and skip between them, and also batter each other, which is what those two were doing more often than not because one wanted to get up and the other wouldn’t let it.
It’s just providing different enrichment for them, but also a different aesthetic for the owners to look at as well, because it needs to be for everybody.
26:48 | Paul:
I really like that picture with the lighting. Was that your idea?
26:53 | Chris:
The customer had seen lighting before, and I thought that was something I needed to capitalise on.
I bought a big stock of lights and showed them to the client and said, “This is an option as well, if you want it.” It was quite a dark spot, so they said, “Yeah, we’ll take six lights.”
They’re little magnetic RGB remote-controlled lights, so you can change the colours, cycle through colours, change the brightness, it completely transforms the space.
27:22 | Paul:
That picture shows it well in the dark.
27:24 | Chris:
That’s it. It just adds a different aesthetic and makes it more enriching for everybody.
27:30 | Paul:
How do you pick up your work?
27:32 | Chris:
Generally, social media.
27:35 | Paul:
Okay.
27:36 | Chris:
Social media is the number one tool for businesses, I think. At the very least it’s free, and you’re basically connected to everybody worldwide. It’s an advertiser’s dream, to be honest.
27:49 | Paul:
Were you interested in social media naturally before you started the business?
27:53 | Chris:
Not particularly, no.
On a personal level, social media for me is just a way of keeping in touch with people that you don’t really speak to on a day-to-day basis.
Business-wise, I’m very busy on social media in that aspect, but personally I just understood that you’re a fool if you don’t use it for a business.
If you just do traditional stuff, magazines, radio, TV, and don’t use social media, you’re really bottlenecking your footprint.
28:25 | Paul:
Do you think the trade use it enough?
28:28 | Chris:
Yeah, I’ve seen some businesses use it and I’ve thought, “I wish I’d done that.”
But I’ve also seen some businesses where they post the end of a job and they’ve either used really poor photos or done it in a way that makes all the comments negative, like, “Oh, that looks horrendous,” and then they start getting defensive in the replies.
It’s a good thing, but it can be a mess when it goes wrong. You really need to scrutinise what you’ve put up and think, how is that going to come across?
29:00 | Paul:
We’ve done customer research on our builders’ merchant customer base, and the age range does tend to be quite old, 45 and upwards would be our core age, and I guess most merchants are the same.
Social media is naturally a younger thing.
If you were going to give advice to somebody in that forty to fifty-five bracket on how to start up on social media, what would you say?
29:28 | Chris:
Just don’t be too proud to defer to somebody else who’s a subject matter expert.
Whether it’s someone younger, or someone who does it for a living, tap into their experience. You don’t have to solo everything and be self-taught all the time.
If there’s somebody you can get advice from and better yourself from it, then just do it.
I hired a videographer last year because I do all my own photos, and I tend not to use videos because they never turn out how I want them to. So in August last year I had my first high-profile customer and thought, right, I’m going to hire this videographer.
One of my clients, who’s an amateur bodybuilder, uses him all the time, so I thought I’d book him in and he can do me some really good content.
Then I sat on that content until New Year because from August last year right up to New Year I was fully booked, and I thought if I use it in August people are just not going to be willing to wait. So I used that to boost 2025, and I’m glad I did.
30:37 | Paul:
That’s an interesting point, don’t be afraid to ask, because you don’t know where it gets you.
That’s why you’re sat here.
30:45 | Chris:
Exactly.
30:46 | Paul:
You didn’t message saying, “Can I come on?” You just said, “What could I do to be involved?”
30:53 | Chris:
Exactly, because that inquisitive mindset… you don’t get told no unless you ask.
It’s great for me because I can use this on my social media and put it out there, and people who generally just see me posting pictures of work can get to know a bit more about me.
It also helps develop a rapport between me and you guys. I’ve predominantly used you guys since I started.
And the podcast itself, no other builders’ merchant is doing podcasts, it just solidifies things as well.
31:26 | Paul:
It’s interesting, the response you’re getting off your social media. You gave me some details before we started. You’ve got over 4,000 followers on Facebook, you’ve got about 1,500 on Instagram, just over 200 on TikTok, and you were saying TikTok is targeted at younger people and needs a lot of content.
I remember the first time we met, you said you’d had twenty WhatsApps that day from all over the world asking about things.
31:55 | Chris:
Yeah. There are some people who don’t realise I’m based in the UK. I get messages from Canada, Saudi Arabia, Australia, the US, Europe, all over the place.
I did an annual deployment exercise in Germany with the Army Reserve last year, and I put it on my business page saying I was off doing Army stuff for two weeks and I’d be back in touch with everybody when I got back.
Somebody from the Netherlands messaged and asked if, while I was on my way to Germany, I’d mind stopping off and building them a catio.
I was like, “Oh yeah, I’ll just get off a coach with no tools and sort that out for you.”
You just get some really strange contacts from all over the world because people don’t realise I’m UK based.
32:46 | Paul:
What are your plans for the future with the business?
32:49 | Chris:
The plans are basically just keep innovating, keep things fresh, keep current, and keep enjoying the process.
That’s the important thing for me, that I enjoy what I do. If I don’t enjoy it, it becomes a chore, and then you stop trying to push the envelope in terms of keeping ideas current and fresh.
That’s my main goal. Obviously I need to keep making money and having food to eat and stuff like that, but it’d be nice to expand at some point because I’m going to start hitting a natural glass ceiling with what I can physically do.
Whether that’s getting somebody to do the social media side or getting another time-served joiner with the same interests and same sort of values as me to help me along, who knows. But I’m not at that point yet. It’s still early days really with the business. I’m still learning about the business itself, and myself in the process.
33:52 | Paul:
That’s good. We’ll make sure we share all your contact details across all our socials and in the notes for this, so good luck with that.
Now it’s your turn to help us and talk about builders’ merchanting. What’s good about it?
34:05 | Chris:
It’s the people.
When you start to get an understanding for your materials, and you build a rapport with a builders’ merchant, you generally know what they have and when they have it. You develop that confidence in them and can turn up knowing they’re going to have all the timber you need, and that it’s not going to look like a dog’s hind leg.
Especially when you get to know the staff as well, whether that’s you guys or other merchants, you know they’re going to have your best interests, and you can go in knowing you’re not going to get fleeced and what you’re buying is appropriately priced.
When you develop a good rapport with them, that’s really good.
34:55 | Paul:
And the flip side?
34:57 | Chris:
The flip side is when I’m working out of area and I’ve got to use branches that I don’t know.
You feel like maybe they’re pulling the wool over your eyes a bit, because it’s almost like, “This northerner’s just turned up, let’s get rid of some rubbish and charge him twice as much.”
I’ve had situations where I’ve had to take stuff back because you look down the length of the timber and think, “What’s wrong with this picture?”
Or it might be timber that’s been left out exposed to the sun and it’s gone grey, and because a lot of my stuff is exposed, the customer doesn’t want to see grey timber, or strap marks, or burn marks from machining, or the printed stamp saying C24.
That’s why I tend to go and pick stuff up myself, because I can scrutinise it and be selective.
35:52 | Paul:
So is the USP of builders’ merchants the people?
35:56 | Chris:
Yeah. The good people almost become a silent partner in your business.
They underpin that relationship between customer and builders’ merchant. Especially with a family-based merchant, because the family values transpose onto the business and permeate through it on all levels.
When I go into Thorne branch, which is my go-to branch, there’s one in Doncaster, but I prefer Thorne because they’ve got the lengths that I need, I feel like I’ve got a fantastic relationship with the people there, whether it’s the lads in the yard, the branch manager, the guys on the desk, or the rep who comes out every once in a while to check if there’s anything else I need.
It’s fantastic and I know I can go in without any issues.
36:42 | Paul:
Could you ever see a time when there’s no need for builders’ merchants and we just buy everything online?
36:48 | Chris:
No, definitely not.
I think builders’ merchants will always be there as physical locations to go and get stuff, because it’s not just myself. A lot of people will want to select their materials themselves because they’re paying money for it and they want the best stuff.
There’s nothing more annoying than having everything organised, your timber’s delivered the day before the job starts, and then you get there and all the corners are smashed off the plasterboard, or the timber’s all warped, and you think, “If I’d have gone and picked it myself, this wouldn’t have happened.”
Also, there are always going to be people who aren’t savvy with materials or trades and need walking through the process.
Someone might come in and ask, “What size screw is this?” or, “I want some timber to do this, what should I have?” or all sorts of things. People need that advice.
37:48 | Paul:
If there’s one thing you could change about builders’ merchants, one change that would make the industry even better for you, what would it be?
37:57 | Chris:
There’s a minor one, definitely, and that’s parking.
When I turn up wanting to buy 600 or 700 quids’ worth of timber and I can’t get in the yard because somebody’s blocked it off to buy one bag of sharp sand or something like that, that winds me up.
38:15 | Paul:
That’s a real problem at Thorne for us in particular because it’s a really small place.
Is there anything more general?
38:23 | Chris:
The thing I’d definitely change would be the international climate affecting prices.
When that ship got trapped in the Panama Canal, that had a massive knock-on effect and everything went up. Conflicts in the Middle East, things like that, and then the Red Sea issues making ships go round the long way.
That affects fuel prices, transport prices, and ultimately builders’ merchants because transportation is everything.
So what I’d want is a more resilient, more robust supply chain that can deal with that, because it’s very fragile.
We found that out during Covid. As soon as the tap gets turned off for certain things, everyone’s like, “What do we do now?”
If things were just a bit more resilient and adaptable, that’d be mega.
Obviously it’s not going to happen completely because the cost has to filter down to the customer, but I do try and absorb little changes. I don’t mind doing that. But if I go to book a hotel or order roof sheets and they’ve gone up, then I’ve got to go back to the customer and say, “This is the change, unfortunately things have gone up since we quoted. Are you still happy to go ahead?”
I don’t ever want the customer to feel like I’m just deciding to squeeze them.
39:48 | Paul:
If we can’t mitigate those problems, it just causes you the problem at the front end. You’ve either got to swallow it or lose the job.
39:56 | Chris:
Exactly. And it has happened where customers have said it’s out of budget now and they can’t afford it. But that’s just the nature of the beast. You’ve got to be open and honest with your customers.
40:09 | Paul:
Right, I’m going to start wrapping us up.
We always have a quick-fire question session that finishes off our podcasts. I’ve slightly modified these for you because you’re not one of us, you’re one of our customers.
Favourite part of your job?
40:27 | Chris:
Being creative. Being able to exercise that creativity and scratch that itch, and think, “You know what? I’m going to try this idea.”
40:39 | Paul:
Do you think that creativity comes from the music? That was your initial career path.
40:45 | Chris:
I think it comes from the autism.
40:48 | Paul:
Right.
40:49 | Chris:
I think it definitely comes from that, because I’ve got a slightly different lens on life compared to other people, neurotypical people.
40:58 | Paul:
How long have you known about your autism?
41:00 | Chris:
March 2023, when I was diagnosed.
41:04 | Paul:
So very recently.
41:06 | Chris:
Very recently. Up until that point I thought I was just not wired up properly.
But I use that now. I weaponise it, really, and use it as a way to capitalise on the super skills side of it.
It’s got its downsides, but that’s life.
41:25 | Paul:
Worst part of your job?
41:28 | Chris:
Rain.
I’m getting rained off at the moment. It’s been an horrific start to the year. I’m currently working in Stocksbridge and the only thing separating me from the Peak District is a hedge. Literally the other side of that hedge is the Peak District, and it’s just driving it in at the moment. So yeah, rain.
41:49 | Paul:
I thought you might say paperwork.
41:51 | Chris:
No, no. I don’t like paperwork, but I don’t not enjoy it either. It’s just a necessity. It’s a case of caffeine, heavy metal, don’t procrastinate, get it done. If you’re not paid, you don’t get paid.
42:06 | Paul:
What’s the most crucial trait a tradesman needs to possess?
42:11 | Chris:
Honesty.
Definitely be honest. Be open and honest with your customers. You need to establish that you’re going to do them right, that the quote you’re giving them is true, and that you’re not out there to squeeze them for every last penny.
You also need to ensure that the product you give them is a quality product that they’ve asked for.
When I’ve had people in to do work on my house and they say, “It’ll be between 600 and 800 quid,” I’m like, “Well, is it 600 or 800?”
When I give quotes to my customers, it’s down to the penny because I’ve worked out absolutely everything, and I say, “Right, this is what it’s going to cost.”
I don’t like customers to feel like I’m being dishonest. I think that’s absolutely crucial. You need to be trustworthy and honest, because otherwise your word-of-mouth recommendations aren’t going to be good.
43:09 | Paul:
Final one, best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?
43:13 | Chris:
Best piece of advice was what my platoon sergeant gave me: don’t let sleep be a barrier to success.
In the Army, you’d get fastballed with stuff. If you were on a course, an instructor might come into your room at the last minute and say, “Right, you’re doing this tomorrow lads, make sure this, this, and this is ready.”
Next thing you know, you’re up until the small hours making sure everything’s prepped and ready to go, then maybe getting three hours sleep and being up all day.
It’s the same in trades. If you need to stay up late to make sure things are in good order for when the job starts, then do it. If it means you’ve got to have a couple of early nights to catch up, then do it. Just don’t let sleep be a barrier to getting things running properly.
43:58 | Paul:
That’s a good one. We’ve not had that one before. We’re going to put our book together of everybody’s best piece of advice and that would be a good one.
Listen, it’s been a real pleasure having you. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation, and the whole story with your life and your career and all the changes.
Good luck with everything that you do with Catio King. We’re all much more knowledgeable now about what it is. I hope it goes a great success for you moving forward. As I said, we’ll share all the contact details on the podcast notes and any promotional stuff we do with it.
To you, our listeners, thanks for joining us again. Hope you’ve enjoyed the episode. If you have enjoyed it, it would be great if you could like and subscribe. It’d be great if you could spread the word to anybody else you know who you think might be interested in this.
I think we’ve got some good stories in our industry, and this has been another great one. So thank you all for listening, thanks for joining us, thanks for watching, and we’ll see you again in the future.
45:03 | Chris:
Thank you. Thanks a lot. Cheers.
45:06 | [Music]